You are hereCalling abortion murder offends you? Good!
Calling abortion murder offends you? Good!
By Dan Fagan
Publisher
The Alaska Standard
You don’t hear much in the media these days about the topic of abortion. Most commentators, talk show hosts, and journalists are afraid of bringing up the subject for fear of offending.
A regular caller to my talk show, Val, gets very worked up every time I bring up the subject of abortion and call the procedure murder. This past week on the show Val made the point that unless I adopt a child or educate people about birth control I am a hypocrite for ranting about how abortion is murder.
Click on the audio link below to hear the heated debate.
I agree with waht you have said in this post. Thank you for bringing out this topic.
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1. Not procreating any more.
2. Remaining faithful to my spouse.
3. Teaching my children the value of human life so that they do not use abortion as birth control.
4. Stating my logic and reasoning in hopes that someone with an open mind can understand the value of human life, born and unborn.
5. Defeating invalid arguments and fallacies with intelligent reasoning and sound judgement.
I find it a constant contradiction that conservatives who decry government involvement in pretty much anything, want government oversight for the choices we make over our own bodies. Stop and think about this for a minute. Recriminalizing abortion is a very slippery slope. Go ahead, recriminalize abortion, and see how long it takes before those same forces go after the birth control pill, the IUD, and, guys? Vasectomies.
"That's why people need to continue to go to the town halls, continue to melt the phone lines of their liberal members of Congress, and let them know, under no certain circumstances will I give the government control over my body and my health care decisions."
-Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) on Hannity Radio, August 2009
It would not be long before the US would be pro-life.
In fact, it will. Latinos are becoming a dominant ethnicity in American. Many are pro-life and Catholic. The days of legalized murder of unborns are numbered.
their right to life?
Ridiculous and pathetic logic.
Let extrapolate that to those that can not survive on their own. Breathing machines, dialysis machines, etc. If you require assistance to survive, you do not have a right to life.
Those individuals can not survive without artificial means.
The facts speak for themsleves. A fetus/zygote/embryo cannot survive outside the womb until 24 weeks/6 months.
If the fetus is dependent on my body for survival, it is part of me. Not independent.
The embryo is not equal to a person and does not have rights over my body.
So, "tlinget," what are you doing to reduce the number of abortions?
Valerie writes: If the fetus is dependent on my body for survival, it is part of me. Not independent.
The embryo is not equal to a person and does not have rights over my body.
Answer: This is false. The embryo may not be EQUAL to a person, but if left alone will become a full fledged person.
Every embryo has its own distinct DNA which establishes it as a human life, and distinguishes it from everyone else, including its mother, other animals or any non-living thing.
You have the choice of not becoming pregnant. Once you are, there is another life that is involved.
Valerie writes: So, "tlinget," what are you doing to reduce the number of abortions?
Answer: A better question is what are the liberals like you doing, Valerie?
If you call yourself pro-CHOICE, then why do we never hear the CHOICE of adoption mentioned by liberals, which is a win-win choice for everyone? Aren't YOU the ones who pretend to be humanitarians but really aren't.
When push comes to shove you folks always run and hide, whether it is the oppressed in Iraq and Afghanistan who need liberation or the unborn who may be unwanted and thus in jeopardy.
You may want to read the entire thread here before you start with the insults. I've already addressed the idea of adoption versus abortion. There are more abortions performed than there are people wanting to adopt. What shall we do with all the babies no one wants? Warehouse them? Pay people to raise them? Thanks, but no thanks. I'd rather be aborted than born unwanted only to be warehoused or given to people who are paid to raise me.
So, MarioG, what are you doing to reduce the number of abortions? Aside from flinging insults on a blog towards people who disagree with you but are actually doing something in an effort to reduce the number of abortions.
Val, It has already been said. A Full term born child also cannot live without his/her parent/mother either. Or at least some competent person. And as for your BS argument, "what are you doing to reduce abortions?" Well, I vote. I vote against these incompetent politicians who believe that this barbaric practice is humane and good. There is nothing else we good people can do. However, if you think you are so smart to ask such a question, maybe you are smart enough suggest other ideas.
What are you doing?
without its mother. Someone else can care for it.
If you're truly interested in reducing abortion, you need to get more involved. Voting isn't enough and talk is cheap.
To read what I do to reduce abortion, see my reply to mcolaveccho.
UNITED STATES
Number of abortions per year: 1.37 Million (1996)
Number of abortions per day: Approximately 3,700
Who's having abortions (age)?
52% of women obtaining abortions in the U.S. are younger than 25: Women aged 20-24 obtain 32% of all abortions; Teenagers obtain 20% and girls under 15 account for 1.2%.
Who's having abortions (race)?
While white women obtain 60% of all abortions, their abortion rate is well below that of minority women. Black women are more than 3 times as likely as white women to have an abortion, and Hispanic women are roughly 2 times as likely.
Who's having abortions (marital status)?
64.4% of all abortions are performed on never-married women; Married women account for 18.4% of all abortions and divorced women obtain 9.4%.
Who's having abortions (religion)?
Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions. 18% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as "Born-again/Evangelical".
Who's having abortions (income)?
Women with family incomes less than $15,000 obtain 28.7% of all abortions; Women with family incomes between $15,000 and $29,999 obtain 19.5%; Women with family incomes between $30,000 and $59,999 obtain 38.0%; Women with family incomes over $60,000 obtain 13.8%.
Why women have abortions
1% of all abortions occur because of rape or incest; 6% of abortions occur because of potential health problems regarding either the mother or child, and 93% of all abortions occur for social reasons (i.e. the child is unwanted or inconvenient).
At what gestational ages are abortions performed:
52% of all abortions occur before the 9th week of pregnancy, 25% happen between the 9th & 10th week, 12% happen between the 11th and 12th week, 6% happen between the 13th & 15th week, 4% happen between the 16th & 20th week, and 1% of all abortions (16,450/yr.) happen after the 20th week of pregnancy.
Likelihood of abortion:
An estimated 43% of all women will have at least 1 abortion by the time they are 45 years old. 47% of all abortions are performed on women who have had at least one previous abortion.
Abortion coverage:
48% of all abortion facilities provide services after the 12th week of pregnancy. 9 in 10 managed care plans routinely cover abortion or provide limited coverage. About 14% of all abortions in the United States are paid for with public funds, virtually all of which are state funds. 16 states (CA, CT, HI, ED, IL, MA , MD, MD, MN, MT, NJ, NM, NY, OR, VT, WA and WV) pay for abortions for some poor women.
Its still murder!!!
1. Repuclicans account for 39% of abortions. Independents account for 17%. You can blame the rest on those sorry bastard liberals.
2. The honorable republican Senator from Alaska, Lisa Murkowski is Pro Death.
As for murder; Killing wolves, a good ole time. Killing muderers, payback. Killing innocent civilans for military reasons, oops. Killing anyone for any reason is not murder if you think it's justified? I guess that's an argument for those who kill other people for any kind of reason. I'm guessing most women who have abortions think it's justified. Just like the military justifies killing civilans and back it with good intentions.
No civilized military "justifies" killing civilians in the post WW-II era, certainly not the US Armed Forces. During WW-II civilians were considered fair game as we saw in the bombings of London, Dresden, Cologne, Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
On the other hand the military today jeopardizes it own people by the modern rules of engagement based on political correctness. We have a situation right now where three Navy Seals are facing court marshalls because an Al Qaeda terrorist claims they punched him in the stomach. Poor baby. I would have gone a little lower myself.
Of course, this administration has taken political correctness to another level where they cannot even bring themselves to admit we are in a war with international terror, which they have re-named an Overseas Contingency Operation. Indeed.
The supremely incompetent and clueless Janet Napolitano calls terrorism a "man-caused disaster". Yeah, right. This is what you get when you put liberal attorneys in positions of responsibility.
According to Michael Scheuer, the CIA agent who headed the effors to find Bin Laden after he escaped from Sudan to Afghanistan, Bill Clinton refused to give them permission to shoot to kill him THIRTEEN times when they had him in their sights, because there were others around him.
but killing wolfs to eat is not.
Thanks for a thoughtful, logical reply. It's nice to see some reasonable feedback. AKT is very immature, to say the least. I can understand where you're coming from. It's actually called collateral damage. I was in the Gulf. Trust me. We're far from perfect, but we do try. I guess that's been part of my argument, those who cast stones need to look into the mirror. Especially AKT.
Killer-roy,
You can throw all the little stones you want but we are still wating to see your source for the Stat - Fact you contributed regarding the % or people who are Republican who have abortions.
I have no trouble looking in the mirror but then again I don't fabricate numbers and state them as fact.
I would suggest you stay away from the fine china you might find the reflection of a proven liar.
Unlike your copy and paste of some 1996 statistic, the source I found was from a credible source called the AMA. In an article titled the Politics of Abortion. It was a random poll done by a neutral writer back in 2002, with an error + or -5%. Try subscribing to something other than Guns and Ammo.
I know you'd like to believe that Rebulicans only have 1% of abortions in the US. I'm sure that makes you feel better. BTW, did you know that Sarah also said is was "Bristol's CHOICE". And Rebulicans also have sex in bathrooms. They're no better than anyone else. BTW. I've never had a abortion. Have you? Maybe someone you know? Of course they wouldn't be a Republican....
Please reply. This is fun, but I do have a job. I know it's hard to believe, but liberals also have jobs. Talk to you next year!
I will admit to not being the best at searching on the net but I am not finding anything here.
Please tie us in to this miraculas piece of neutral journalism so we too can feast our eyes and be enlightened.
Just give us some detail of the issue, date, publication and author. I am sincerely interested and I believe Val and others would love to have this as a reference.
We await your response.
Wow - Val, this guy is something and the military let him have a weapon ? but I suspect this nutty stuff is why he is not in that line of work anymore.
I know you can not control who supports your position and there are lots of loons and misinformation on both sides but this cluck is a riot.
What stats did I copy and paste from 1996 ? Are you referring to my mention of the % of people who use toilet seat covers as related to the Alaska Independance Party ??? Hey Wingnut - that was a joke !!!!
OK - we get that you went online and found an article that relates to the numbers you made up - great job. I suspect they moved old Kilroy away from weapons - can someone move him a safe distance from a keyboard and the internet ??
Look - I don't know what it has to do with anything but if anyone, even you Val, thinks that this wingnut has reliable stats on the political afiliation of people getting abortions we have totally lost it. If the Killer comes back with his reference as Planned Parenthood we are supposed to believe they are interviewing the girls on their political leanings as they suck the life out of them. Now that would be real compasion.
Next we are going to hear "from reliable sources" that 89.7 % of people who use those toilet seat liners in public toilets are from the Alaska Independant Party. Just ask the Killer he knows - or will just make up facts that seem to fit for him.
There are plenty of phony stats on both sides of this debate but ole Killer just jumped the shark.
Truth hurts doesn't it! Repuclicans also use drugs. Just ask Rush Limbaugh. Oh, they cheat on their families too. And they're gay. I just love how republicans are sooooooo self-rightous! "Not us". Oh no.
BTW, most people seeking abortions don't use your feared, the dreaded, the killers at Planned Parenthood. When you do your homework, try not being so bias. It's not very scietific.
P.S.
I also noticed that you didn't say anything about your honorable Senator. Maybe she had an abortion? Wait! ONLY Liberals have abortions! Yeah, right.
who was the last person to run Planned Parenthood who resigned after seeing the truth about abortion? You will feel humble when you realize the truth. Everybody with wisdom has those moments...yours may come.
The only stat that counts - the aborted foetuses are 100% DEAD
The truth can hurt only if it is the Truth but your wacky ranting just damages the left.
Some of the points made by Val and others on this issue are thought provoking - your wingnut approach is just damaging to their case.
Again where did you get the stat ? Or when did you make it up. You should have added a decimal point to make it more believable.
I don't really expect Killer-Roy to really site the source of his bogus stat - it is just sort of fun to watch him flounder.
Kilroy was here but he ain't all there !!!
So tell us, what are you doing to reduce the number of abortions?
what are YOU doing to reduce the number of abortions? I advocate for adoption, council women through our church ministry, and remind people that this is a holocaust against the unborn. I've also served as a CASA, a court appointed special advocate. I advocate for abused and neglected children, I have been the CHILDREN's voice in the court of law in front of Magistrates. I believe in the sanctity of life from conception to natural death...what do YOU do Val, besides complain about everyone else?
Thank you for asking, Mark.
In an attempt to reduce the number of abortions, I donate monthly to Planned Parenthood to help fund sex education and birth control. I also give a portion of my Permanent Fund Dividend to Planned Parenthood through the PFD Charitable Contributions Program, Pick.Click.Give. It is clear to me that the most effective way to reduce the number of unplanned and unwanted pregnancies is through accurate information, education and access to reasonably priced effective birth control.
I also talk openly and frankly with teens (female and male) about sex, pregnancy and the consequences. More than once, I have accompanied sexually active teenage girls to acquire effective and reliable birth control. Unfortunately, the parents of these teens preferred to live in LaLa Land of denial and assume their daughter would remain a virgin until marriage. Realists, like myself, know that statistically that's simply not the case. Things like Purity Balls are not effective; one study conducted by researchers at the universities of Columbia and Yale found that 88% of pledgers wind up having sex before marriage.
One thing is for sure, and I believe you agree with me on this Mark, the way to prevent abortion is not to make it illegal. It won't work and it never has. In the 2 decades before abortion was legal in the US nearly 1 million women went to back alleys each year for illegal operations. Thousands of women bled to death and many more were maimed. Those women were daughters, mothers, sisters and wives.
Regardless of where everyone reading this stands on the issue of abortion, we all need to be working on realistic solutions to reduce the need. (ESPECIALLY if you rant and rave about it regularly on the radio. :) Love ya, Dan.)
This was something I didn't know. Anyways Thanks for the post.
Air Horn
I think the word in the headline should be "offends".
I love English-only advocates who are entirely unskilled in the language. Will be funny when they prevent themselves from voting, no?
I am impressed how smart you are... The perfect world smart...the smartest in the WORLD!
I understand the conservative stance on executing a convicted murder.
- An individual has committed the crime of taking the life or lives of others.
- That individual gave up that right to life by taking another.
I understand the conservative view on abortion.
- An unborn child is innocent. He or she has done no wrong whatsoever.
- An unborn child is a separate life. Even liberals acknowledge this.
I do not understand the liberal view.
- They believe executing a person, who has murdered innocent people, is wrong.
- They believe that aborting an unborn innocent human life is their right.
A fetus is not a separate life if it cannot survive outside the womb.
I commented earlier on this statement.
Your reasoning is self-serving and applied equally would mean any person that can not survive on their own should not have the same right to life.
Totally inhumane.
What are you doing to reduce the number of abortions? (Aside from posting insults on blogs.)
Nor can a full-term neonate survive outside the womb, (same as a fetus) without its mother.
Newborn babies are given up for adoption by their mothers everyday.
And, like I said, a newborn and even an infant cannot survive without having a mother (or a like person able to protect and take care of him/her). An adopting mother is an adopted baby's mother, no? Your point still escapes me.
What about adoption is so hard to understand? The point is that it is a choice that every woman with an unwanted pregnancy should consider before flushing what is clearly a human life, since there are so many couples on the other side of the fence - unable to conceive.
However, the most prominent abortionists in the country, NARAL and Planned Parenthood, who call themselves pro-CHOICE, do not even mention this viable CHOICE on their web sites. This clearly makes them pro-ABORTION, in my opinion, not pro-CHOICE.
How many people know that there are babies who are born alive from botched abortions, and were previously left like garbage to die a horrible death until the Born Alive Infant Protection Act was passed and signed into law by President Bush in 2002 which required abortionists to do everything possible to help that baby live. Even NARAL supported this act. However, President Barack Hussein Obama, Mmm! Mmm! Mmm! opposed the equivalent of this act in Illinois as a state Senator, which makes him even more pro-ABORTION than NARAL:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18647
We're on the same side on this one.
than there are people willing to adopt.
What do you suggest we do with the children no one wants?
Conversely, there are far more prospective adoptive parents than babies available for adoption.
I think we both agree the answer lies in preventing unwanted pregnancies in the first place.
After about a year, everyone that wants to adopt a baby will have one or two. What shall we do with the babies no one wants? I personally would rather be aborted than born unwanted.
And what are you doing to help reduce the number of abortions?
1) I walk my talk, I have never had a role in an unwanted pregnancy, or abortion.
2) I embrace and support anyone who chooses to continue their pregnancy. It wasn't that long ago that social stigma was an enormous factor in countless abortions. Even today, consider everything the Palin's have been put through because of this very thing.
3) I frankly discussed these things with my now-adult children, both of whom escaped having an unplanned pregnancy in their lives.
4) I openly express myself without demonizing a person considering an abortion, or who disagrees with my ponit of view.
Simple stuff, but abortion would be a rarity if everyone did the same basic things. Even in the best of circumstances, there will always be unplanned and unwanted pregnancies, but not the epidemic proportions they are today.
Granted, I am not going to change the world and my influence is statistically insignificant, but nonetheless, I have had an impact. Most recently, I heard from a friend in Colorado I've known for 30 years. She and her 18-year-old daughter were distraught over just learning of the daughter's pregnancy. We discussed many things, including mutual friends who've been in the same situation over the years. Of those who opted against abortion, not one of them would come even remotely close to telling you the pregnancy was the tragedy they thought it was at the time. The daughter has decided to continue her pregnancy, and regardless of what their ultimate decision is, this will be, without question, a baby that is very much wanted.
Bar none, my Uncle Bill was the greatest man I've ever known. When he was 8, he rescued his 4 younger siblings (including my mother) from the second story of their burning Nebraska farmhouse. My grandfather died of his burns 3 days later. Shot down twice while flying 100 missions, he was one of the greatest fighter pilots of the Viet Nam War. None of us knew these things because he never spoke of himself, not even the Silver Stars received from two presidents. He retired as a lt. colonel, and in '97 he was found dead with his arms under my aunt, trying to lift her from their bed. Carbon monoxide killed them. Years later, my grandmother revealed from her deathbed her great shame; that my uncle was conceived out of wedlock (in the 30's). What's my point? I have many...
http://akparamedic.com/misc/Major%20William%20Raitt,%20USAF.jpg
I fall short of demandiing that everyone else adhere to my beliefs and values, i.e. by illegalizing most abortions, and I sure wouldn't want to be the person having to make the final decision. But I wholeheartedly agree, Val, preventing unwanted pregnancies is the best answer of them all.
Thanks also for walking the talk.
I'm not sure what you're referring to in #2 regarding the Palins. I refuse to read the book of lies.
I meant only that a single abortion would have spared the Palin's a tremendous amount of public scrutiny and negative publicity. Most of all, perhaps, we never would have had to hear anything of Levi! They could have easily kept the world from ever knowing about it, and I admire the fact they didn't take the easy way out. And in this day and age, it disturbs me that Bristol's unwed pregnancy was so selectively stigmatized. That said, I very much wanted to be a Palinbot but, alas, it didn't work out.
It's been a pleasure, see ya around (most likely) on the blogs.
The daughter's unwed pregnancy was scrutinized because both Palin and McCain expressed a commitment to abstinence-only sex education programs. Even with the evidence to how ineffective it is standing on stage right next to them! It would be funny if it wasn't all so sad.
Bristol Palin hit the nail on the head in her interview with Greta Van Susteren. Abstinence-only education is unrealistic.
I'm impressed with Levi. He has more courage than the entire state legislature! And I think it's admirable that he is asserting his rights as father of his child. It was the "mama bear" that introduced the world to the baby daddy.
I appreciate the civil discussion. Happy new year to you and yours.
Killing another person defending your country, in most cases, is not murder.
Killing another person defending your property, in most cases, is not murder.
Killing another person while defending your life is not murder.
Killing another person by accident is not murder.
Killing another person while defending another life is not murder.
Killing another person who was sentenced to death for killing another or others is not murder.
Killing your unborn child is murder.
Killing wolves, a good ole time
Killing muderers, payback
Killing innocent civilans for military reasons, oops
Killing anyone for any reason is not murder if you think it's justified? I guess that's an argument for those who kill other people for any kind of reason. I'm guessing most women who have abortions think it's justified. Just like the military justifies killing civilans and back it with good intentions.