You are hereDoes Palin once again think the rules don't apply to her?

Does Palin once again think the rules don't apply to her?


Posted on 02 January 2009 9:04am

Levi Johnston By Dan Fagan

Have you noticed how our governor seems to have convinced herself only some of the rules apply to her?

This attitude was really at the heart of Troopergate. It also allows her to do things like take cash from the state for spending more than 300 nights in her own home in Wasilla.

Now it appears the governor may have found a new way to skirt the rules. How is it possible that the governor's soon-to-be son-in-law, Levi Johnston, is working as an apprentice on the North Slope?

The governor, in trying to dispel rumors the father of her grandchild is a high school dropout, released this statement this past week,

"Levi is continuing his online high school work in addition to working as an electrical apprentice on the North Slope."

But federal regulations require all members of apprentice programs, union or otherwise, to first obtain a high school diploma, something the governor's soon-to-be son-in- law does not have. Some apprentice programs even require the completion of high school level algebra or the post-secondary equivalent.

So how is it that the governor's soon-to-be son-in-law is working in an apprentice program? Is this another case of the governor believing the rules don't apply to her or her family?

Bo Underwood, who heads up ASRC's electrical apprentice program, confirmed Johnston is indeed enrolled as an apprentice. Underwood claimed not to know whether a high school diploma is needed to be an ASRC apprentice and said he would check on it. But federal regulations clearly state a high school diploma is needed before entering an electrical workers apprentice program. How is it the man who runs the program does not know that?

Underwood also claimed not to know whether there is a waiting list for the ASRC apprentice program he runs.

Rebecca Logan, executive director of Associated Builders and Contractors, an organization that also has an electrical workers apprentice program, says waiting lists always accompany apprenticeship programs. Her organization's electrical apprentice program, one of only three in the state, has a waiting list of at least 100 people.

ASRC's Underwood also could not say how it is Johnston came to be a part of his apprentice program or whether the governor had anything to do with getting him in.

I placed a call to the governor's office but have not as of my deadline received a response. An attempt to reach Levi Johnston by phone at his mother's house was unsuccessful.

Did Levi Johnston bypass the rules to get into a coveted program because of his soon-to-be mother-in-law? We don't know the governor's involvement. Eventually she will have to address the controversy.

I believe 2009 will be the year more and more Alaskans will come to realize Sarah Palin is in way over her head as governor, doesn't always play by the rules, and is, at times, less than honest.

A poll commissioned by TheAlaskaStandard.com and conducted by Dittman Research shows the governor is losing some of her appeal. When respondents were asked whom they would vote for between Lisa Murkowski and Sarah Palin in a 2010 race for the Senate, an overwhelming number said Murkowski. According to the poll, Murkowski would beat Palin by a margin of 56 percent to 23 percent.

If the public doesn't catch onto to the governor this year, they surely will in 2010. That's the year TransCanada will hold its open season. Chances producers will commit hundreds of billions of dollars to ship gas through the TransCanada pipeline instead of their own; I'd say 1 in 10.

Meaning AGIA. will be exposed for the silly policy it is several months before the governor is up for re-election.

Chances Palin is elected to a second term as governor, I'd say 3 in 10.
 

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Thank you!  I was wondering about the "non-native" thing and didn't see anyone talking about it anywhere!  I hope that some of those kids who are still sitting on the waiting list while Levi gets a pass start making some noise! whole life insurance.

What do you guys think?

I'm afraid I have no option but to agree with her and be on her side in this case because I don't how it is when you think the rules does not apply for you as well. I worked with Trianz over 4 years and I helped many people to make money, save money and create good investments and this is what helped me to think this way I guess.

Levi may need to get his act together if he wants to work on the north-slope. I wouldn't be surprised if he had gone to a drug rehab facility in his past. Just be careful you never what is in someones closet. However, if someone is looking for a drug rehab, Utah,facility I know of a great one called Ascend Recovery in Highland, Utah

That how it will always be in politics. If you are an important person you don`t care about the others and you think you can make exeption from the rules. As a governor you gotta be an example for the others and so far I`ve only seen governors doing drug rehabilitation or being corrupted.

 
Whether intentional or not, the young man was enrolled into a program for which he was not eligible. (It matters not whether he would have been eligible for some OTHER program; he was NOT eligible for this one.)
 
Some would prefer that everyone just looked the other way and let him break the rules. They claim that he was singled out because of his association with the Palins, yet the same can be said for the opposite--allowing him to stay in the program simply because of his association with the Palins. If he had not fathered Bristol's baby, the Palinbots would not be the least bit concerned about Levi's quitting the ASRC apprenticeship.
 
Celebrity cuts both ways. It can both provide undeserved privilege as well as result in extra scrutiny.
 
 

I find it interesting that people find Dan's article both the negative and the positive.  At least it brings various viewpoints out into the open to be looked at under a better light than we are expericing right now in Alaska.  We are heading towards the light of summer now so things start to look clearer each day.
 
If I remember correctly during the time of the first comments on the new addition to the Govenor's family it was Sarah who broke this story in her gushing review of her soon to be son in law and how he was working hard on the slope as an electrician's apprentice.  It was in almost the same breath that she stated that he was 'not a drop-out' and was working on finishing his GED.
 
Little did she realize at the time there are requirements for that program just like many other construction trades, medical field positions, computer related job and the list goes on.
 
It opened the door for discussion whether it be Dan or someone else who is familiar with the requirements to ask those questions.
 
Is it a crusade against Palin?  Probably not, but just another 'you betcha' being engaged before thinking what to say in the moment of a proud grandparent.
 
Dan can be blunt at times as that is why some peolpe tune in or seek out his column.  Again it is about choice whether to tune in to see what he champions this day or that and if it is not to your cup of tea on any given day there are other ways to spend your time.
 
I think it is those looking for the 'train wreck' who tune in so they can call in or write posts on these boards as we can then be involved and possibly have something to do.
 
Keep up the debates as we can all learn from the experience.
 
Icewind
 
 
 

THANK YOU 
Dan Fagan for reporting about the curroption and abuse of state laws and regulations at ASRC Energy Services.  Perhaps, someone should look into all of the training at ASRC and make SURE the training goes to the Inupiaq shareholders instead of the family of management.  Will ASRC be fined?  What do the Inupiaq people think of this?  We are not suprised.  This is just one more example of ASRC management curroption.  The mission statement of ASRC is supposed to benefit the shareholders.  The training funds should have also been slated for a Shareholder. 

what federal regulation? What dose it say? What is its name? what is its number? i cant find these regulation any where...
dave@alaskafreeman.com
 

link has it, http://www.jobs.state.ak.us/energy-apprenticeship.htm , give it a look, but also on this site http://www.jobs.state.ak.us/apprentice/brochure.pdf
 
Hope this helps...

1.First……Dan said it was a Federal Regulation....and clearly the website you sourced…is a state website…
2.Second ....The website says "Apprenticeship programs have requirements and they may may may may may may may may may include the following"....Dan said it was a Federal regulation"....There is a BIG deferent’s between a state guidelines and a federal code. Privet companies can fire and hire anyone they want….. You are liar too if you believe him and his lies….oooooo…aaaahhhh…..thanks for spelling help…Super Dave….without you I could not spell “you are a liar too”…
 
 
Dave@alaskafreeman.com
 
 
 
 
 
 

and I'm also glad that I could fill the emptiness of your day by showing you the info I found, and have you call me a liar. The world is a much better place with name calling, and I'm glad you're doing your part. And I think it's private. Private companies. By the way, if the posted requirements only apply to some people and not others, it's called discrimination, and that's a bad thing. Check out the story on Levi's resignation, and read the statement from ASRC. They (unfairly in my opinion), seem to imply Levi lied on his app.

Thanks for bringing up the obviously unfair hiring of Levi as an electrician on the Slope. Why didn't he have to wait in line and fulfill the requirements (HS diploma or GED) like all the other folks trying to get a job??? It took my son in law ages to get hired on the Slope and he has several welding certificates, college courses, etc. Is anyone investigating this blatant favoritism and nepotism??? Gov. Snowflake should be ashamed --- but of course, she'll look you in the eye and lie about it. You betcha.... She is an embarrassment who can't even complete a sentence....

Gov. Palin is getting more rediculous by the day.  Her abuse of power never stops.  Levi Johnston should get to the back of the line and let men with the correct qualifications start the apprentice program.  We have to vote her out of politics--period.

I think it's now a tie between the ADN and this site as to who hates the governor more.  You might as well just throw in with the liberals and bash your way along together.  It's too bad I have to wade through this garbage to read the few good articles. 

Levi Johnston’s name will be forever tied to Sarah Palin whether he likes it or not.  No matter where he applies for a job an employer could do one of two things:  1) Do their best to place him in a good position because of his ties to the Governor; or 2) Show him the door out of dislike for the Governor.  He was most likely the benefactor of the first.  Did Sarah have something to do with this?  If not directly then indirectly.  He may have jumped to the top of the list or maybe someone is exaggerating when they say he is actually in the apprenticeship program.  As long as I have been in the workforce, which is quite a long time, employers have hired people on the basis of who they know and not always what they know.  Levi Johnston’s situation is no different.
This young couple will have a difficult road to travel for a while, which has only been made more difficult by Mama Sarah putting her family’s life out there for all the world to critique.  Would we all feel better if he was working at a "dead end" job. I don't think so.  Let’s just hope he takes advantage of this wonderful opportunity and becomes a good and responsible man.

I do NOT blame Sarah Palin for the actions of ASRC, I like her and will vote for her again.  I am a shareholder of ASRC, I blame them.
ASRC Energy Services is owned by Arctic Slope Regional Corporation.  Arctic Slope Regional Corporation is owned by the Inupiaq people from the North Slope Borough.  Though, few Inupiaq have much of a say on what really happens at ASRC Energy Services.
 ASRC was formed under the Alaska Native Claims Settlement act of 1971 with the purpose of improving the lives of Native SHAREHOLDERS and thier families. 
ASRC does not own the North Slope Borough, nor does it own the pipeline. In most cases ASRC does not even have sub surface rights.  Though, the Inupiaq have resided on the "slope" land for thousands of years.  What we do have is a business that bids out for contracts.  The state has a big say in who gets oil leases as well as what business's receive contracts on the Slope as well as other areas of the state. 
If Levi Johnston were a shareholder of ASRC or were a spouse of a shareholder, then he would qualify for a preferance. Otherwise, I wonder why he would get preferential treatment when there are so many unemployed Inupiaq's that RESIDE in the North Slope Borough, most in villages where employment is hard to come by. 
As a Shareholder who has worked at ASRC Energy Services, I am assuming ASRC management simply hired a NON shareholder for political reasons. 
I do NOT blame Sarah Palin for the actions of ASRC Energy Service management.  I am a shareholder of ASRC.  I blame the company that hired him. 
It is unfortunate that management hired a non shareholder for a training program that was slotted to go to a shareholder, with funds for training allocated for the developement of an Inupiat.  
As a shareholder, it is HARD to get permanent employment at ASRC Energy Services. Unless of course, you are tied into the ASRC "good ol' boy network"
I am a single mother who resides in Anchorage, I have three jobs and I own a jewelry business to make basic ends meet.  I have a GED and several UAA credits as well as several years of stable employment experience.  But, yet I was unable to get into a basic Roust A' Bout training course being held in Wasilla. 
Perhaps this is what we need to shake up more training and permanent positions for Shareholders within ASRC.

I do NOT blame Sarah Palin for the actions of ASRC, I like her, I will vote for her again.  Though, I cannot say the same for ASRC Energy Services.
ASRC Energy Services is owned by Arctic Slope Regional Corporation.  Arctic Slope Regional Corporation is owned by the Inupiaq people from the North Slope Borough.  Though, few Inupiaq have much of a say on what really happens at ASRC Energy Services.
 ASRC was formed under the Alaska Native Claims Settlement act of 1971 with the purpose of improving the lives of Native SHAREHOLDERS and thier families. 
ASRC does not own the North Slope Borough, nor does it own the pipeline. In most cases ASRC does not even have sub surface rights.  Though, the Inupiaq have resided on the "slope"  for thousands of years. 
What we do have is a business that bids out for contracts.  The state has a big say in who gets oil leases as well as what business's receive contracts on the Slope and other areas of the state. 
If Levi Johnston were a shareholder of ASRC or were a spouse of a shareholder, then he would qualify for a preferance. Otherwise, I wonder why he would get preferential treatment when there are so many unemployed Inupiaq's that reside in the North Slope Borough, most in villages where employment is hard to come by. 
As a Shareholder who has worked at ASRC Energy Services, I am assuming ASRC management simply hired a NON shareholder for political reasons. 
I do NOT blame Sarah Palin for the actions of ASRC Energy Service management.  I am a shareholder of ASRC.  I blame the company that hired him. 
It is unfortunate that management hired a non shareholder for a training program that was slotted to go to a shareholder, with funds for training allocated for developement of Inupiats.  
As a shareholder, it is HARD to get permanent employment at ASRC Energy Services. Unless of course, you are tied into the ASRC "good ol' boy network"
I am a single mother who lives in Anchorage.  I work three jobs and own a jewelry business to make my basic ends meet.  Even with a GED and several credits at UAA as well as several years experience working with ASRC subsidiaries, I was unable to make it into a basic Roust a bout training course.
Perhaps this "Apprenticegate" is what we need to shake up more training and permanent positions for SHAREHOLDERS within ASRC. 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
I read this article and comment string and find it interesting the people who are calling this situation irrelevant to Palin. If people think that this is between Bristol and Levi and that the Palin administration has nothing to do with it, read the ADN today and the article about the Sherry Johnston drug investigation and how it is obvious the administration is meddling with that situation. Palin has used her power every way she can throughout her time as governor. Why would she stop now? 
I have experience with the ABC apprenticeship program and I don’t believe an apprenticeship program would allow an individual be accepted into the program without a high school diploma or GED. Even if he did get accepted into an apprenticeship somehow, what professional company would hire an apprentice without those very basic credentials? There are qualified people waiting in line for a job – whether union or non-union. For a company to look at a person who hasn’t graduated from high school over others who have is ridiculous. There’s something going on with this and it is not right.
For the people who say: leave the kids alone, I say to the administration: stop lying about the situation. Be honest, open, and transparent. Or just say it’s none of our business. But to answer the question with a lie, or abuse your power to make the situation appear to be OK is not right. I don’t care about what those kids are doing, I care about a governor abusing her power.
I voted for Palin.  I even contributed to her campaign.  I supported her administration for a time.  No more!!!

I found this link coming into my website , from a site called the Oxdown Gazette, and thought Danny might appreciate how puzzled people out of state are about the fact that a self proclaimed conservative would dare criticize Sarah Palin.  
Yeah Dan didn't you get the freaking memo? Conservatives are supposed to LOVE her.
You are never going to get to attend those cool RNC parties now buddy.
I hear they provide stale beer and elderly hookers and everything!  Poor Dan, now he is going to have to try and get teh liberals to let him come to their rocking parties.
Don't hold your breath Dan.

I throw rocking parties and I'm conservative. Now granted, Levi's mom has better party favors than I do, but still, a bash at Super Dave's house is not to be missed...

"how does a highschool dropout thats non native get a job with a native owned corporation?" 
 
Thank you!  I was wondering about the "non-native" thing and didn't see anyone talking about it anywhere!  I hope that some of those kids who are still sitting on the waiting list while Levi gets a pass start making some noise!

The education standard is regulated by states not the federal government. Only the age is under the standards of apprenticeship.Look under CFR 29.2 (E)and CFR 29.5 (B) (10) they read that a person may not less then 16 years of age.So why would a person of 16 years of age who has finished high school go into an apprenticeship program instead of college.

...you'll see that both union and non-union apprenticeship programs require high school diploma or GED:
 
http://www.jobs.state.ak.us/apprentice/Index.html
 
The union apprenticeship has additional math requirements.
 
Are you telling me that Arctic Slope Regional Corporation would have seperate requirements, thus making it so that their apprentices/journeymen wouldn't be eligible to work on any other jobs than their own?

Grant W. Hunter
645 G Street Ste 100 PMB 653
Anchorage, AK 99501
Tel: 907-258-6735
907-230-3681
hunterpp@gci.net
 
1-3-2009
 
Dan Fagan
The Alaska Standard
 
Reply to Comrade Berni Hein’s Commentary on Sarah Palin’s Decision to Remain in Anchorage/Matsu when the Legislature Is Not in Session at B5 of the Anchorage Daily News for 11-26-2008
 
Comrade Berni Hein of Juneau compared the pledge of the Comrades Obama to become part of the Washington DC community to the decision of Governor Palin not to live in Juneau between legislative sessions.  Comrade Hein spoke of Juneau’s low crime rate, the ability to walk to work, and the desire to have children living in the mansion. Comrade Hein attacked Todd Palin‘s attempts to persuade the Legislature to leave Juneau.  Comrade Hein spoke of unconscionable economic harm to Southeast Alaska in the event of such a move.  How would such harm be unconscionable?
 
Unlike the Comrades Obama and a fair number of the people of Juneau, Sarah and Todd Palin are decent people who honor God, human life, Walter J. Hickel, private property, natural resources development and the Second Amendment.
 
Comrade Obama was not elected President of the United States to become part of the community in DC. Sarah Palin was elected to serve the best interests of Alaska, not Juneau.  The rest of Alaska has no duty to live for Juneau; on the other hand, Juneau has the duty not to bleed the rest of Alaska.
 
Despite the alleged amenities of Juneau and her people (a bunch of leftists and aspiring Eurotrash), Geography is geography. The vast majority of Alaskans now live in South Central and Fairbanks. The Governor should naturally have her headquarters where most of the people live as does the State Supreme Court. The Alaska Legislature should meet in either the Egan or Denai’na.  Even if the Alaska Legislature continues to hide from the people in Juneau, the Governor should remain in South Central even during legislative sessions. She could communicate with the Legislature via a large HD-TV in each legislative chamber over a two-way circuit.  Any legislator wishing to speak directly to the governor could use a conference call.
 
Maintaining the dole for Southeast Alaska pales in importance when measured against increased access for the vast majority of Alaskans to their government. 
 
Todd Palin serves Alaska by urging a move to South Central and ending the hosing of South Central by Juneau.
 
Juneau is the old horse to be recycled into fertilizer for a garden of good government in South Central.
 
Yours truly,
 
Grant W. Hunter
 
Grant W. Hunter
hunterpp@gci.net
 

Is it too early to call this "ApprenticeGate?"

Whoever sent the below link that was to clarify apprentice requirements...show me where it says you do not need a HS Diploma or GED or essential mathmatics...I am not saying that I agree or disagree with Fagan's story...I am just saying that once again, Palin is involved with this somehow!  There are LONG waiting lists for apprenticeships....and Johnston should have to wait his turn like everyone else! He is not exempt from hiring rules and he needs to pay his dues and follow proper protocol....end of story!  For anyone who does not believe that either one or the other of the Palins expedited Johnstons apprenticeship...is pretty dang naive!
 
Did you ACTUALLY reserch this, before making it public?
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ETA/Title_29/Part_29/toc.htm
Take a look at the Democratic underground page, and others

Your not looking at 29 CFR 30.5 which states,

"Education requirements shall be applied uniformly to all applicants."

Which means if they rejected one applicant because they didn't have a
high school diploma or GED they're in violation.

Which brings us to the next part. Granted the Feds don't specifically state
education requirements, I can't believe they're going to vary their guidelines from one apprenticeship program to the next in the same state all that much. You got to remember these programs are subsidized by the feds so I'm sure some fed bureaucrat has some policy book outlining what guidelines these programs will follow. Only way to know for sure I guess is to see the guidelines the feds approved for ASRC, something Underwood isn't commenting on but I'd bet dimes to donuts it requires a GED or high school diploma.

 

http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/Title_29/Part_30/29CFR30.3.htm
concerning apprentices" is what I see on the DOL website. If all the applicants are given the OK to enter without a completed GED then there is no problem. Picking and choosing which applicants get the green light withOUT a completed GED..doesn't sound very "uniform" to me.
 

Don't tell Fagan to get a life. I am independent, but when I see a Dem make a misstep, Republicans are all over it, and  the push never stops to bring the misstep to light. However when a Rep makes a misstep, other Reps tell the Dems to "get a life" or "get over it" or "aren't there more important things to worry about?".
My point is, no one should be above the law or have favors done for them becuase of their position. It is up to all of us to point out injustices on either side of the aisle.
 

Hey Alaska,
If you don't want Palin for the next round, we'll take her here in "Caleefornia."
Have you seen the freakin' Democrat clown show we're running over here in the once Golden State? With a $48B deficit coming up, and a fake Republican governator who is in their pocket, their only answer is to tax us to termination.
You're worried about Levi J. gettin' a good job?? At least he isn't an illegal alien like half this state!!!
gimme a break....
hasta la vista baby!!!!
 
 

how does a highschool dropout thats non native get a job with a native owned corporation? 

Hi Dan,
Good to see this site up and running as another venue from the radio.
 
My company is a member of ABC and you are correct in requiring a high school diploma or possibly a GED equivelent.   Our GED apprentices sometimes fall short on the math requirements and will have to take some additional courses to fill the requirements to be allowed into the ABC apprentice program.
 
As your article states with the waiting list, having the available manpower for completing our projects is always a hard thing for many companies, union or non-union as the availabity of qualified manpower is lacking.  Programs like ABC help companies like mine to train a qualified workforce to better Alaska and it's families.
 
Icewind
 
 
 

Uh, yes. Somehow, this is the fault of someone else, and anyone who thinks she had anything to do with this is a hater.

How can the head of an apprentice program not know its minimun entrance requirements?  Or whether there's a waiting list?  Is Sarah ready for another round of gotcha journalism?

Nice job Dan,
With the 50th Anniversary of Alaska Statehood going on.
You decide to write this garbage.
Your dislike for our Governor, is hurting our cause.
As a life long Christian Conservative.
I feel your doing a DISSERVICE, by these STUPID comments.
We had a local kid, that had a very hard upbringing.
That went threw a apprenticeship electrical program.
He had NO GED/Diploma, nor was he related to a Governor.
Yet, he finished and passed the program.
Guess what Dan, he could be wiring something for you someday!
Why not give it a rest. All you are doing, is feeding the flames.
As your comments are being used against our party, and making the state look bad.
Did you ACTUALLY reserch this, before making it public?
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ETA/Title_29/Part_29/toc.htm
Take a look at the Democratic underground page, and others.
You are becoming a hero, for them!!
I wonder at times, which side your REALLY on.
Or is the ADN (Always Democratic News) writing you checks!
 
"If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a Nation gone under."
  --  Ronald Reagan

Alaskans, for global warming!

A man WITH a gun is a CITIZEN
A man WITHOUT a gun is a SUBJECT

Take care, be safe.
God Bless.
Chris - Alaska

 

Did you actually research your link before making it public? Why don't you try 29 CFR 30.5 before you continue making an ass out of yourself.

Do you think everyone can refuse to honor subpoenas?  Do you think everyone  should get per diem while living in their own house?  Should everyone be able to transport their  kids  at state expense?  Is it  ok for  the governor to move the capital without approval from the legislature or the people?   Is it ok for the governor  to continuously lie, about the bridge, earmarks, AGIA, Troopergate, etc?
Just what cause are you  talking about Dan hurting?   Who were her biggest supporters until the VP debacle?  The Democrats, that's who.
Don't blame Dan for pointing out the obvious.

Hey Fagan!
 
 
Slow news day huh?
 
Jeeeeeeeeeesus....get a life!
 
 
Richard Lewis
Carefree Arizona

When are you all planning on getting rid of SILLY Sarah? I'll be glad to come help! OsiSpeaks.com

Mr. Fagan, if you didn't alienate every politician in Alaska, maybe,just maybe, you would be able to ask them in person. But no, you seem to think that your bully tactics is for the good of the people of Alaska but, all you have done is cheat the people of Alaska from access to our leaders. A job well done.

Dan frequently has political leaders on his show, democrats as well as republicans. 

How absurd to write an article blaming Sarah Palin for something that you can't even prove!  You have no idea that Sarah Palin had anything to do with Levi's apprenticeship.  You don't even know the status of that position.  In other words, you made up a story in order to trash Sarah Palin.  Pathetic.

This story is trash. If you don't have a GED or diploma you can use a HSGQE or math profeciency exam to enter an electrician apprentiship program. The vast majority of people who enter apprentiship programs don't have diplomas.

Is there really a surprise here? Union apprenticeship programs have always been who you know, not qualifications.

Maybe if you didn't alienate so many political figures, they would come on your show and discuss these things.

...this is journalism?
 

FAGAN JOURNALISM. I wouldn't waste my time asking Mr. Fagan anything from now on. As you can tell, he never answers anything on this site anyway. He gets his student to answer for him, that would be Mr. Stiern. You see, Mr. Fagan can't hold a mature conversation and unless he is in control, you, I and anyone else who challenges him on anything is just p*$$*ng in the wind.

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